Why isn’t 24E creep reduced by more than half compared to the 24?

An answer to a 24 FAQ describes the 24’s total creep as about 1/16 of an inch, the same as the stock trigger. That’s not very much at all. The dimension given is measured by an instrument. Users of the trigger report however that the creep is very small if not zero, so even mentioning the “creep” word can be misleading to some, given the bias many shooters may have. The best way to form an opinion on the trigger is to try it.

Back to the 24, the creep feels smooth and long by comparison to the the stock case, which feels gritty and short. That’s because shooters who are unused to the light single stage pull of the 24 can very easily over estimate the amount of creep. Again, the creep term has taken on a negative connotation with AR15 triggers due to the stock design’s grittiness and high weight. When we use it, creep describes firearm sear engagement and sliding from the starting point of trigger movement through to hammer release. So, in the 24 family’s case, it’s a positive not a negative. What other single stage trigger feels as smooth, light, and controllable as the 24? Describing it is one thing. Experiencing how HIPERTOUCH® trigger “creep” feels is another matter. But we’ll try.

Yes, the creep of the 24E is measurable and half of that found in the 24. Why not less creep? Safety is one obvious answer. Any firearm trigger should be pulled consciously and deliberately. Beyond that, we thought it important that if the shooter wanted to take advantage of the light stroke, he could draw it back more slowly and still be surprised at break to remedy flinching, or draw it back more quickly for speed without undue stress or frustration developing in the mind or the shooting hand. From that standpoint, it all comes down to controlling the stroke. Every shooter should be able to successfully develop his own technical approach without the bad characteristics of an inferior trigger getting in the way. Having said that the creep IS one half that of the 24 when measured by an instrument, the shooter’s perception will be that the creep is very much shorter, if it has any creep at all. The reason for that is built into the sear design’s subtleties and is very difficult to describe in words alone, so we’ll pass.

Pulling the 24E trigger is therefore more like pulling a two stage trigger without a long first stage take up, where that very short second-only stage can be set to three different low weights. As different as the 24 trigger stroke is to any other AR trigger system out there, so is the 24E.

After the trigger is pulled to take up all of the over-travel (stopping it against the safety-selector), the shooter can now slowly let off the trigger to reset the hammer. The reset is both tangible and audible, even through ear protection. If the shooter stops let off at the point of hammer reset, from there the creep is now less than half of the 24’s initial creep. This is possible because the trigger “creep” of the primary sear and that of the semi-auto disconnector sear during let off is smooth and the weight light, that is, in both trigger directions. A little practise will suggest how to best employ these attributes for accuracy under diverse conditions for those who shoot competitively or operationally.

Now, the 24E creep characteristics are more like the 24C’s than the 24. Visit the 24C FAQ tab for more information on how the 24C’s creep is subetly different and designed for maximum effect for a very specific shooter type and scenario.

Terry Bender

Why is there so much “creep” in the HIPERTOUCH® 24?

Good question, because it’s all about perception. In fact, the creep is the same as the stock trigger, only about 1/16 of an inch. Some think creep, any “creep,” is bad. We use the term here in its technical sense as one metal surface sliding against another. All triggers but hair triggers have some creep. The 24 feels like it has more creep only because, unlike the stock trigger, the shooter can draw the trigger back so much more slowly to hammer release. He feels the squeeze, i.e. trigger movement, due to the smooth lower trigger weight and says to himself, “WOW, that was a long stroke.” Compared to stock it feels long indeed.

We have read some ad copy for enhanced stock triggers with Nickel Boron plating for example that states that the trigger has no creep. How are we to reconcile that with what we at HIPERFIRE® know to be measureably false? Again, it’s all about perception. These and other stock triggers have a high weight relative to the HIPERTOUCH® 24. When force is applied to the trigger to draw it back, the user’s finger pad flesh is compressed, much like a tire inner tube, or air spring, storing potential energy. During this increased application of force, the finger perceives that the trigger isn’t moving, because it isn’t, but the finger is. When the pressure in this fleshy part of the finger exceeds the threshold resistance of the trigger for movement, the static friction force of the trigger against the hammer’s primary sear is exceeded in an instant and the trigger springs off of the compressed finger pad to hammer release. This spring back is simply the stored energy in the finger pad being released as a force causing motion. This movement is so fast that the finger doesn’t perceive the trigger’s movement. NiB improves sear lubricity slightly over stock so it “feels” even more like the trigger didn’t creep, therefore, “it has no creep.”

For those shooters who therefore think that the HIPERTOUCH® 24’s creep is “huge,” just stroke it faster. A little practise will quickly readjust your muscle memory. After a while, go back to your stock trigger and then make the comparison in “feel” and your group sizes. You will see that creep is not the only measure of what makes or doesn’t make a good trigger. The HIPERTOUCH® 24 was designed this way for those who prefer or like a trigger with perceptible pretravel.

Terry Bender

What is the difference between the 24, 24E, and 24C?

The 24, 24E and 24C have some fundamental similarities. They all tout the same trigger design concept and all use the same pair of toggle springs that adjusts trigger pull weight and adds to the swing weight of the hammer for a more reliable, consistent ignition. However, despite having a similar trigger design, each model offers a different trigger pull feel to ensure every user gets a more customized personal fit.

The 24 model offers more trigger creep for safety purposes or other user preferences, making this model an ideal option for users who want a deliberate, higher creep trigger pull. Having said that, there are some highly ranked 3*Gunners who run the 24. Just goes to show, it’s what you want in a trigger and not going just by the name.

The 24E is an upgrade to the 24 model that reduces creep by 50%. Users of the 24E experience a lightweight/responsive trigger reaction with just a hint of creep or pre-travel that minimizes time between deciding to take the shot and trigger break. The 24C offers an even faster trigger response than the 24E, delivering the least amount of creep, most say virtually no creep, of all three options, making it an ideal option for an expert shooter. Of course, this applies to the newer 243G as well.

Terry Bender

What lowers will the HIPERTOUCH® FCGs not work in?

So far, only two lowers we know of may not receive our FCGs, but with some qualifications. Both lowers are .308 lowers, which follow no commonly practiced MIL-spec standard like AR15 type lowers. We know of one that definitely will not, dare I say, should not, receive a HIPERTOUCH® FCG.

Polymer Lowers of Various Manufacture: Caveat emptor (buyer beware): some polymer lowers have been found to not meet the MIL-spec pin size and layout making proper function of the HIPERTOUCH® triggers problematic: hammer won’t fall (no trigger break), hammer falls on reset (hammer not captured by primary trigger sear), etc. Measure your lower per the spec found here.

Smith & Wesson M&P-10: The first lower that may not permit our HIPERTOUCH® FCGs to operate as-is are lowers from Smith&Wesson that have ambidextrous controls. Users have reported to us that the ambi-controls invade the fire-control cavity and interfere with free rotation of the 24 series hammers where the toggle springs connect at the toggle spindle. The EDT series triggers install and function without issues. These users have removed the offending ambi-control and then the hammer is free to swing without interference.

DPMS 308-LR: Some 308-LR lower from DPMS will not work with our FCGs, or not work without modification to the lower. First, examine this document. It shows the FCG cavity that the HIPERTOUCH® FCGs are designed to work in. We have learned of three different problems that can be fixed by a slight mod to the lower and or the FCG, and one that can’t be fixed.

In some of the 308-LR lowers, the distance between the forward wall of the cavity and the trigger pivot pin is too short preventing hammer swing upon cocking. What happens is that the hammer will not fully lie down when cocked during manual charging or by live-fire. The bottom of the hammer strikes and then binds on the forward wall preventing the BCG from moving fully to the rear. So, users have removed material from the forward wall to produce the clearance the hammer needs to fully cock and the binding issue goes away. This problem has exhibited on some lowers, but not on others.
In some cases the cavity depth with respect to the trigger pivot is too shallow. When the trigger is let-off, the rear portion strikes the cavity floor, preventing the disconnector from releasing the hammer (reset). Fix it by removing some material from the trigger; just enough to permit reset.
In other lowers, the spacing between the bottom of the upper and the trigger pivot pin is too close, or the trigger pivot pin hole is too high. What happens is the toggle shafts hit the underside of the upper when the hammer cycles so that they can not freely poke out all the way. When these toggle pivot shafts hit the upper, the shafts stop and the hammer doesn’t fall. Fix it by removing a little material from the ends of the toggle shafts exhibiting wear upon hitting the upper just enough so the hammer won’t bind up, or remove a little material from the upper at the location showing wearing to prevent binding.
In rare instances, the lower’s pin hole spacing is not within spec, leading to hammers that don’t release (holes too close), or hammers that skip off the sears leading to occasional doubling (holes too far apart). This problem can’t be fixed by repair of the lower. Stock FCGs will work in these lowers because they do not rely on the tight tolerancing that the HIPERTOUCH® triggers demand.

Colt Large Pin AR-15®: A customer installed a HIPERTOUCH® FCG in a rifle and complained about it bursting every time he pulled the trigger. After repeated tries to identify and fix the burst problem, HIPERFIRE® asked for a pic. Immediately the problem was identified. In the pic was an old Colt lower and yes it did have over-sized pivot holes. The customer wondered why it was so easy to install (the pins went into the lower with no resistance and now he knew why). The added pivot hole slop increased the functional pivot centers beyond MIL-spec and prevented the semi auto disconnector from ever capturing the hammer. The hammer would fall with every BCG cycle until the ammunition magazine was emptied or the shooter let off the trigger. HIPERFIRE® identifies its pivot pins as small and of 0.154-inch diameter. HIPERFIRE® does not make FCGs for the large-pin Colts.

Bushmaster Carbon-15 Composite Lower Receiver: The polymer lower’s trigger guard is not MIL-spec. It rides higher than the MIL-spec removable trigger guard. The HIPERTOUCH® 24C trigger must be shortened a little by grinding to remove the interference with the guard or the polymer guard must be trimmed slightly with a Dremel tool for example to allow free rotation of the trigger bow.

Seekins Precision SP Safety Selector Kit: This safety selector is not MIL-spec. It’s designed to operate at 90 and 60 degree throws by reversing the side on which is was installed. The cut outs in the cylindrical barrel of the safely for the trigger are therefore at vaious angles and interfere with operation of the Frame part on HIPERFIRE®’s HIPERTOUCH® 24 series triggers. Seekins Precision does not recommend HIPERTOUCH® 24 triggers for this reason and neither can HIPERFIRE.

Armalite 308 Bolt Carrier: A customer installed a HIPERTOUCH® 24C in a custom built AR featuring parts from different manufacturers. The customer chose a BC from Armalite. The bolt carrier would hang up on the cocked FCG hammer preventing it from going fully forward into battery and letting the hammer fall. It’s not clear to HIPERFIRE whether this was a fluke or a common problem to be encountered with Armalite BCs. The customer remedied the situation by selectively machining the hammer slot to make it longer so that it would leave plenty of clearance with the 24C hammer. See the pics below.

Terry Bender

I was expecting less creep in the trigger. Can I return the product?

All sales made through hiperfire.com are final. To place an order, these terms must be agreed to. The only returns accepted are those made under warranty that covers problems with material and/or workmanship. In these cases, once the product is returned and inspected, it will be replaced.

Having said that, perhaps something is wrong with the trigger. Please see the Trouble Shooting Guide to learn if there is some installation or other issue related to its performance that can be easily remedied

Terry Bender

What trigger do you recommend for _______ [fill in the blank]?

With so many different types of shooters with different personal preferences, types of rifles and ammunition, it’s hard to be specific with a recommendation that will suit everyone. However, detailed perusal of the hiperfire.com site will suggest those product options that best help the individual shooter determine the right trigger and performance feel for his or her needs. Or, phone HIPERFIRE® for a personal consultation.

Terry Bender

Will the FCG detonate 5.45×39?

Yes. Typically Russian, the primers on 5.45×39 ammunition are very hard. Our FCGs can have a high-energy hammer fall that exceeds MIL-spec by as much as 35% and is very capable of detonating/igniting 5.45 x 39 ammunition without breaking a sweat. To achieve this best-in-class high energy hammer fall, use the Blue toggle springs, which also produces low trigger pull weights in the range of 2-1/2 to 2-3/4 lbs.

For some, understanding how an extra pair of springs can simultaneously achieve very low trigger weights and still produce the highest energy AR hammer fall in the industry is mind bending. But, that’s precisely what the HIPERTOUCH® 24 family of FCGs for the AR rifle does. It’s kinda like a compound bow. Hammer cocking force is very high at the beginning, then it drops off as the hammer is fully cocked, just the opposite behavior of every other AR hammer. When the hammer is fully cocked, the force is lowest, therefore the pressure on the sear is lowest, therefore the pull friction is lowest, which the shooter feels as lower weight. That’s it.

Terry Bender

Will the hammer ignite 22 rim fire?

Yes. HIPERTOUCH® triggers have the hardest hammer fall energy of any AR15, AR10 type rifle hammer on the market when the Blue toggle springs are installed. HIPERTOUCH® systems are the ideal fire control for use in 22 long rifle chambered ARs.

See Will the FCG detonate 5.45×39?

Terry Bender

Will the FCGs work in my _______ [fill in the blank] lower?

Hiperfire’s FCGs will work with any lower receiver that has a Mil-Spec cavity. View the “MIL-spec” cavity drawing, AR10 & AR15 Fire-Control Cavities, that shows the spec that the HIPERTOUCH® FCGs were designed to. Lower receivers that have that cavity, open and unobstructed, will receive the FCG’s without any problems.

See What lowers will the HIPERTOUCH® FCGs not work in?

Terry Bender

Can the triggers be adjusted to 2 pounds or less?

No. When everything is installed correctly, the lowest weight of the 24 is roughly 2½ pounds. Likewise the 24E and 24C both have a lowest weight of 2¾ pounds.

Having hammer springs installed backwards or toggle springs installed incorrectly will contribute to trigger weights lower than 2 pounds, but trigger performance will be degraded in some other way like primer light strikes, gritty trigger pull, etc.

See Trouble Shooting Guide.

Terry Bender